Liar Liar Pants on Fire- Rep. Joe Wilson to Obama: "You Lie!"
75Back from his August round of town hall meetings in South Carolina, it would seem that Congressman Joe Wilson, South Carolina Republican, brought town hall meeting manners back to Congress with him. To really stay in keeping with August's town hall meeting themes, he brought the factual distortions back with him as well. After all, what's the fun of a town hall meeting these days if you can't heckle someone, shout a little, be generally rude and disruptive and employ a few right-wing scare tactics?
So last night during President Obama's speech to a joint session of Congress, when the President attempted to clear up the myth that healthcare reform was going to provide insurance for illegal immigrants, South Carolina Congressman Joe Wilson twice shouted out "You lie!"
Heads turned and hisses followed while President Obama coldly stared him down. "That's not true," the President replied. Unruffled, he went on with his speech.
Well reasoned and eloquent, the President's speech addressed directly the lies being spread regarding healthcare reform proposals. He noted the past resistance to healthcare reform, laid out again the dire need for effective, comprehensive healthcare reform, and briefly mentioned the late Senator Ted Kennedy, who -via a letter delivered posthumously- had encouraged President Obama to not give up on healthcare reform.
Sharing in his speech Senator Kennedy's conviction regarding the "character of our country", the President referred to it again in his closing remarks. "I still believe we can do great things....That is our character."
Republicans appeared unmoved for the most part, but a few of their more respectable leaders did behave appropriately, only withholding applause on some of the points of healthcare reform which have proven to be partisan sticking points, such as the parts where it is comprehensive and effective.
Bob Bennett, Republican Senator from Utah, was even seen rising to his feet in applause after Obama debunked the 'death panel' myth promoted by Sarah Palin and Chuck Grassley, among others. Rising in applause as well was Senator Olympia Snowe and her junior Senator from Maine. With Senator Snowe reportedly working with the White House on a senate bill, their cooperation is somewhat expected. Bob Bennett, though, poor guy, it's tough being a Republican these days. The comment boards on blogs across the net are calling for his seat.
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After the 45 minute long President's address to the Congress -and during it, in fact- the internet began going crazy. Wikipedia had its profile of Congressman Wilson updated almost instantaneously, about a thousand or so blog posts were created, generating roughly a million comments, and Congressmen Joe Wilson's official website crashed. No doubt he'll have a lot of emails to read.
From the blogs and comments I read, my guess would be that about 70 to 75% of those emails will be rebuking his behavior. The other 25 to 30% will be hailing him as their new hero. Joe Wilson for president? So he frequently says stupid things he later has to apologize for, so what? So he interned for staunch segregationist Strom Thurmond in the late 60's during the height of the fight for integration, no big deal.
Well, if not a Presidential run in 2012, I hear South Carolina is looking for a new governor. One way or another, I see big things in this man's future. America doesn't let that kind of unabashed ignorance go unrewarded.
The sad part of all of this is that the myth of coverage being provided by healthcare reform for illegal aliens has already been repeatedly debunked by many trustworthy sources. Some people claim that they're afraid our country will become a socialist nation if effective and comprehensive healthcare reform passes. Perhaps there ought to be a little more vocalized concern regarding what our nation has already become.
Looks like the mob madness of August's townhall meetings isn't quite over yet. Well, at any rate, I guess it's a good thing that members of Congress aren't allowed to carry guns onto the floor of the House.
Recommended Hub
- Did the President Lie? Illegal Immigrants and HR 3200
What Obama said: "There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false. The reforms -- the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here...
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I was underwhelmed by the speech but disgusted by the behavior of Wilson and other Republicans. What a bunch of badly behaved children! It's disgusting to see grown men and women behaving this way. It disgraces our whole country.
I didn't hear anything in the speech I didn't already know, and the questions I most wanted answered were not answered. Basically it's that word 'affordable'. What one person thinks I can afford and what I think I can afford may or may not be the same thing. If I'm required to buy private health insurance on my crappy income right now, it will be very difficult no matter what the cost, but it the cost runs into hundreds of dollars a month it will be impossible.
The last health insurance policy I had at work had a $2500 deductible, 80/20 after that, and an HSA. It cost me $50 a week for my portion. One trip to the ER left me with over $5,000 in bills that were not covered or were my share of the cost. No treatment, just tests and ER stuff--$5,000. At the time I was making about $20K a year. I currently still have my HSA. It has $47 in it.
I don't want to pay a dime for another crappy policy like that. Not a dime, not a penny. So I had lots of unanswered questions, but it's clear to me we have to do SOMETHING. I just hope that something isn't a big fat giveaway to the very corporations that created this problem in the first place. I still think single payer is the right thing to do--this, I'm not so sure.
I was also troubled to hear that tax cuts would help people like me pay for 'affordable' health insurance. How does that help month to month? I have to wait a year for a tax rebate, but premiums are charged monthly.
Like I said, still lots of questions.
Nice hub. I don't know why every time i feel some thing like racial discrimination every where though not formally but somewhere mentally it seems that is doesn't changed.
Wonderfully written hub. I agree with the comments so far...also, as an uninsured college student, I do not dare to take a chance and get sick...I went down that route once and it just chills my bones to know what will happen to me if I were to fall ill or become injured. The health care debate has totally gotten out of hand, mostly ignorance is prevalent in these discussions. Everyone screaming and yelling, no one is listening. No one ever listens.
pgrundy and Am I dead,yet, I am right there with y'all.
Clara, progress is slow, but sure.
Amanda! I'm ashamed to admit it, but you're so right! Slanderous, public accusations, secret maneuverings and conspiracies, we've even got a death-bed letter! Sooner or later they'll make a movie. In the meantime we have our own live reality show, and you never know who will survive!
Well said. I, too, believe single payer health care is what's really needed, but I understand that President Obama has to live with the political reality that American has too many Joe Wilsons and Sarah Palins. The president tried to make sure everybody gets adequate health care coverage -- even offering an exemption for some. Of course, we can't know exactly until the legislation is written. But you can be sure the right wing will fight it every step of the way.
I did hear a difference in the President's speech. He promised to CALL OUT anyone who disagrees with him. I will be expecting a visit from ACORN or SEIU thugs some time soon.
Don't flatter yourself!
He just doesn't want any more nonsense. The only thugs I've seen have been the rightwing wackos at the Town Halls and the militia types showing up with guns at speeches. I don't see ACORN threatening anybody. I do see a lot of right wing ugliness and barely veiled threats of violence.
The legislation won't take effect until 2013. What's the hurry in passing the Government option. Make the reforms first and prove they work and save the money claimed.
If they do work and save the money, I will wholeheartedly support the Government option. I do however wish my Medicare Advantage program was not being targeted.
We (UK) had a bit of your President’s speech on the news last night. Can you guess which bit? (It was the bit where someone shouted ‘liar’.) The BBC got their few seconds of drama, but it left me wanting to know what else the man had to say. US policies influence us greatly over here - like almost anywhere else on the globe - so it would be useful to know what ideas are likely to be coming our way next.
Look after yourselves please, because if you don’t, the shockwaves will go far, wide and deep.
Anyway, future US generations might question the wisdom of ‘the people’, via their representatives, if they allowed a mere device, such as money to affect the health of their nation.
Once again, a great hub. Very interesting comment from amiliar. "A mere device such as money". Do others really put the health of their citizens before money?
Just watched a great Keith Olbermann tonight where he called out Wilson in a very cogent way - using facts and expressing the outrage we should all be feeling at the circus side show the Right is choreographing! The fact is Wilson is the one who is the liar - there is nothing in the proposed bill that would allow the government to pay for the health care of those who are here illegally. Excellent hub - keep it up!
wealthmadehealthy,
I have chosen to delete your comment. I try to never delete comments, but I really don't want anyone soliciting funds for Joe Wilson on my hub. I have another hub on Joe Wilson under the user name Congress Monitor. I use that user name to build a slow database of all congressmen and senators up for reelection in 2010, which I will hopefully have completed by then. Therefore that hub on Wilson is a general profile of him and you may use it to post your campaign fundraising letter if you like. Of course, I will post a reply there stating why I disagree with you.
Why I disagree with you and your letter is because first of all, the bill in question -H.R. 3200- does not cover illegal immigrants in the sense of offering subsidies for them, and in fact expressly excludes, denies and forbids them the privilege of federally sponsored subsidies under any and all circumstances. As does every other proposed bill that I know of. However, under H.R. 3200, illegal aliens may be required to purchase health insurance ON THEIR OWN DIME or face the penalty withdrawal from their paychecks. I don't see that as a bad thing, in fact it's definately a good thing.
Regarding proposals by Republicans to strengthen eligibility requirements: there are already in place very stringent citizenship verification systems required as a standard basis requirement of eligibility for any federal programs. Yes, illegals use false social security numbers to obtain employment, but the IRS knows they are illegals. We choose to overlook it because at least this way they're paying taxes. The extra verification that the Republicans were seeking was found to be unworkable and unnecessary.
So Joe Wilson committed a profound social faux pas, attempting to publicly denigrate the U.S. President in a most shameful way, over what was first of all no big issue, and second of all, a distortion of the facts on Wilson's part and not on the President's side.
Had there been a good cause and rightfulness in Wilson's action, I would applaud him. But there wasn't. His words were rude, uncalled for and unjust.
Your letter claimed that democrats in power are now trying to destroy Wilson, and that they would do all they could to keep him from becoming re-elected in 2010. I'm sure the latter is true, the former is unnecessary. Wilson destroyed himself.
This isn't the first time he has unjustly accused democrats of false things, speaking insulting things about others that are either completely untrue or just a representation of his distorted far-right viewpoint. It is not the first time he has had to later apologize either. I have been unable to dig up sources for this in the last day and a half due to the flooding of Joe Wilson articles and blogs currently on the web, but as soon as I am able to find them, I will post them in his bio. The bottom line is that he shows a pattern of inappropriate tirades against others and a lack of comprehensive understanding of the issues. He does not benefit our country, in my honest opinion, though I realize that the self proclaimed 'patriot' gang would disagree with me. It wouldn't be the first time.
Your letter suggests that the sudden rise in Miller's campaign contributions is due to Democrat machinations to destroy Wilson. It's simply not true, just another far right misrepresentation of reality. Joe Wilson's opponent -who he defeated last year by outraising funds by a margin of two to one- will be in a better financial position in 2010. You can bet the DNC and other Democrat PAC's will help him with that. So far though, his sudden boost in campaign contributions appears to be all thanks to the idiotic and shamefully wrong, misplaced outburst of your Joe Wilson. The contributions began pouring in before the President's speech even ended. Robert Miller raised over $400,000 by yesterday afternoon from over 11,000 new individual contributors. In less than 24 hours, that gave him a total of just about as much as he had to work with in all last year.
Robert Miller -an Iraq vet- gave Wilson a run for his money in 2008, despite having half as much to work with. It was the closest election Wilson has faced in the highly Republican 2nd district of South Carolina, the richest district in the state.
So you see, wealthmadehealthy, my views differ from your's completely on this matter. I condone neither Wilson's words or his viewpoint on this issue, nor his distorted far right positions in general, and I sincerely hope that Wilson does lose the 2010 election.
I was therefore compelled to remove your fundraising letter from the comments section. If you would like to post it on his bio page as I suggested, I won't delete it from there, though I will refute its claims. If you'd like to post a new comment here stating your defense arguments for Wilson's words or viewpoint on this issue, minus the fund raising letter, I will not delete that either, though again I will refute it.
Thanks for commenting. Sincerely sorry that I had to delete it, as I hate deleting comments.
Thank you to everyone for your thoughtful comments.
Amillar wrote:
"Look after yourselves please, because if you don’t, the shockwaves will go far, wide and deep.
"Anyway, future US generations might question the wisdom of ‘the people’, via their representatives, if they allowed a mere device, such as money to affect the health of their nation."
Two very interesting points. Thanks!
I just checked, and currently Rob Miller has gained over $700,000 in campaign contributions on a Democrat fundraising site called ActBlue. This is great, but don't think he doesn't still need help. The 2nd district of South Carolina is a bastion of rich Republicans. But Rob has got a good chance. A retired Marine who served in Iraq, Rob was able to come within 8 points of defeating Wilson last year, but you know the Republican spin machine is hard at work to keep Joe Wilson in office. This race has now gained early election attention, and it will be fiercely contested between now and Nov. of next year. If you would like to help Rob Miller replace Joe Wilson in Congress, and if you can give a little, why not give a little now while it's on your mind. Ex General Wesley Clark has endorsed Rob Miller, and is reaching out to spread the word to others. Visit his page at ActBlue to donate to Rob Miller's campaign fund if you can.
A solid, strait up assessment of Wilson's behavior. Our elected officials, all of them, are expected to be civil. Wilson clearly failed.
Another point. My assessment of politicians is that they ALL lie, Wilson and Obama included. So here we are with a government full of liars. Ah, it's what we've asked for by years of inattention.
Interestingly enough, I rather enjoyed just how you ended this particular hub. Even if the "left" succeeded in taking away "all the guns," rest assured, the thug would still be carrying.
Great read. Had to smirk a bit at this: "America doesn't let that kind of unabashed ignorance go unrewarded." as it was crossing my mind just at about that time.
I'm right there with Amanda, some of the US politics dynamics remind me of Almodovar's movies, when you see them they're seem so far fetched, but most if not all reflect pure real life drama. Same with US politics sometimes, if they put that "you lie" in a script people'd be thinking, hey the writer was drunk by that scene.
I'm still fascinated that most of the dialogue (to call it something) around heath reform turns around money. Ain't nada gonna get fixed if this keeps being a matter of money and doesn't trespass into the moral imperative sphere.
So much against Obama it is becoming normal. Ethics and morals out the window; disrespect of the President, no big deal, out the window too- or, that was rude and so forth. How sad and predictable. Right wing madness.. Really? Makes me wonder why we go under. The heckling itself, in front of National and International media. no big deal, I reckon. Are the Republican congress men thugs? Hmm... Makes me wonder...
Great Hub as usual, TC.
Hxprof and I are of the same mind about lying, but since some 90% or so of our politicians are attorneys, what else COULD we expect.
"America doesn't let that kind of unabashed ignorance go unrewarded." Is one of the most brilliant--if saddest--lines I have seen written in any post.
GREAT job.
Rational and factual once again Things Considered.
My dismay and loss of hope with Obama rises from one simple fact; he is clinging to the mantra of market based solutions.
As long as profit is the motive, no good will come from any "changes" that are applied.
The "free market" not only rewards willful ignorance; avarice, deceit, corruption and pathological self-interest are also held in high esteem.
For illegals to NOT be getting health care off of HR3200 there sure is alot of stuff in the bill about illegals. I know...it doesn't come right out and state "ILLEGAL" but everything is left wide open and we all know that if left wide open to the government, then it will be abused. Look at history of government run programs. Just what the hell is a "personal characteristic" anyway as stated in the bill????
They use the term "PERSONAL CHARACTERISTICS" instead of "illegal alien". If illegals are not included, THEN why are "illegals" being exempted from taxes in Part VIII. These are just a few sections I have already found and am re-reading the bill this time cross referencing to the tax code where necessary.
Section 152 H.R.3200 - SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services including insurance coverage and public health activities covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to PERSONAL CHARACTERISTICS extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.
(b) IMPLEMENTATION.—To implement the requirement set forth in subsection (a), the Secretary of Health
and Human Services shall, not later than 18 months after
the date of the enactment of this Act, promulgate such
regulations as are necessary or appropriate to insure that
all health care and related services (including insurance
coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act
are provided (whether directly or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements) without regard to PERSONAL CHARACTERISTICS extraneous to the provision of high
quality health care or related services.
Part VIII Section 596 STATES:
(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS.—Subsection (a) shall not apply to any individual who is a nonresident alien.
Part VIII explains how taxes will be applied. Subsection (a) is as follows:
(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of (1)the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over (2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
I don't know about you all but I just don't trust this to be done right. Harry Reid did say last week that the House did not even write the bill. The Apollo Alliance wrote the dang thing and gave it to Pelosi. Nothing good can come of this. It is overkill. Health "COST" reform is needed...not Health "CARE" reform like this monstrosity.
Excellent, well written article. I just joined your fan club. Imagine my chagrin, being a progressive Dem from South Carolina, and having Jim DeMint & Lindsey Graham as my senators, Mark Sanford as my governor, and Joe Wilson as my representative. Yes, I live in Wilson's district (Columbia area). I found it ironically funny when I received emails from progressive groups asking me to email my congressman to ask him/her to censure Wilson! I didn't bother asking him to censure himself. Do you think I should have?
Things Considered writes:
H.R. 3200- does not cover illegal immigrants in the sense of offering subsidies for them, and in fact expressly excludes, denies and forbids them the privilege of federally sponsored subsidies under any and all circumstances. As does every other proposed bill that I know of. However, under H.R. 3200, illegal aliens may be required to purchase health insurance ON THEIR OWN DIME or face the penalty withdrawal from their paychecks. I don't see that as a bad thing, in fact it's definately a good thing.
Um....the problem Things Considered is that there is no requirement for proof of citizenship to be covered under any of the plans. This means that YES illegal aliens will be covered under Obamacare and the Joe Wilson shouting you lie was in fact the truth. You may recall that when democrats sat in the hall during the State of the Union speeches by the Bush's catcalls were often heard. I am sure you don't recall those moments...am I right?
Amanda Severn Level 3 Commenter 2 years ago
American politics are far more entertaining than British politics! If you put some of this stuff in a film script, people would dismiss it as being too far-fetched.